Is this the end of KDE for me?
I have been a linux user since early days. In fact for home use I only have Linux and Mac OSX. I have used RedHat, Fedora and Mandrake/Mandriva in the past. Then I discovered Ubuntu few years back and it’s been no looking back. I have used both Ubuntu and Kubuntu extensively. But my destop of choice for home computer has been Kubuntu as I have alwyas felt that KDE has better tooling than GNOME. I like the simplicity of GNOME, but KDE always had more applications.
I love how KDE evloved and matured in 3.x versions. But, then I think the focus shifted to make it look and behave more like Windows (especially Vista with Plasma L&;) for version 4. That’s where my frustration with KDE comes from. I have given it a try a number of times since early beta days and I have been disappointed every single time. My main frustrations have been:
- It’s horribly slow compared to 3.x versions.
- It takes more memory to run. In fact it pretty much takes same memory as you would require for Windows XP.
- The Desktop is ugly. I am pretty happy some simple icons on the desktop. I don’t need fancy effects. There is a value in simplicty and I wish KDE devleopers learnt this from Mac OSX.
- I have been using Superkaramba for a long time and love it compared to KDE applets. In version 4, these are replaced by widgets. It just seems like a step in wrong direction as it has fewer widgets and they are horrible.
- Every time I tried to customize the desktop and L&F, it ended up screwing up everything.
- The main KDE menu is almost unusable. I don’t understand how it is more user friendly
- Same applies to Dolphin file manager. I have Dolphin on KDE 3.x as well, but again there isn’t anything mind blowing.
The release of Ubuntu 8.10 is almost here and Kubuntu is going to make KDE 4 as the default desktop. I am seriously considering switching to GNOME or Xfce going forward. The purpose of a desktop is make the life easier for a user and that has not been my impression of KDE 4. May be GNOME was right all along in the philosophy of keeping things simple and usable.
Anmol Chaturvedi said,
October 20, 2008 @ 2:30 am
I have been using KDE 4 svn since 4.0.x and I disagree with you.
Rather than finding solution you are criticising what is default. On my system it is taking around ~200mb, with all the widgets and desktop effects turned on. For a modern desktop that is reasonable. Unlike you many love the desktop and the effects.
All these things are quite subjective. So what you need to do is to remove any plasmoids which is bothering you and turn off Kwin effects..
If you like the icons on desktop not the folder-view, then you would be happy to know that in svn build i am using, we can have that kind of desktop all you have to do is :-
Desktop Settings > In Desktop Activity > Type > Change Desktop to Folder-view using drop down menu.
(You will have even more choice now, you can change it to Blank Desktop, Desktop Grid etc etc)
I would also like to add, that me and many more like the default setting as many have their desktops always covered by applications.
You don’t need to miss superkaramba, all you have to do is :
Add Widgets > From the Windows click on “Install New Widget” > “Install a Widget from a local file” >
Chose b/w :-
1)Plasmoids
2)Web Widgets
3)Super Karamba >”Every time I tried to customize the desktop and L&F, it ended up screwing up everything.”
You mean it used to crash ? well it is lot more stable now(4.2).
>>”The main KDE menu is almost unusable. I don’t understand how it is more user friendly”
Well that is subjective, i use it every day and prefer it over classic menu and Lancelot. Do you know you can remove Kickoff menu that you dislike and add Classic Menu from “Add Widgets” dialog window.
>>”Same applies to Dolphin file manager. I have Dolphin on KDE 3.x as well, but again there isnt anything mind blowing.”
Well how is Nautilus or Thunar mindblowing ? Again this is subjective. But well you can use Konqueror or Krusader (ported recently).
>> It’s horribly slow compared to 3.x versions.
ARe you using NVidia ? Many NVidia users are finding KDE4 to be very slow, the problem is with the NVidia drivers. NVidia relased latest drivers to adress the problem to some extent.This may help too: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=118088.
BTW Qt Software is also working on qt 4.5 to improve its performace so that too may also adress the problem.
You using KDE 4 on Kubuntu ? That can be the issue, it is not the best KDE distribution. I have used Kubuntu is past and many other KDE based distributions and IMO it is lowest in my list of best KDE distributions.
But that us my opinion, I don’t want to sound too righteous but would like to recommend you to try OpenSuse whenever 4.2 is released. You can also try what I am using Arch Linux + Kdemod Unstable repo OR Daily KDE 4 svn builds.
Anon said,
October 20, 2008 @ 11:05 am
I’m sorry you’ve had problems. I’m glad, however, that you’re very calm and reasonable about this. The community appreciates constructive feed back; let’s see if what we can do about your problems.
* It’s horribly slow compared to 3.x versions.
As the previous poster said, it might be the nvidia thing (or, if you are using Kubuntu; consider moving to a distro that properly supports KDE, like OpenSUSE), but no doubt that this first pass is a little slower. However, the underlying frameworks are getting leaner and more efficient, and as developers learn to properly harness those frameworks, things will speed up. Plus, there has been lots of work making the whole environment quicker. Take this, for example:
http://blog.bepointbe.be/index.php/2008/10/19/30-a-bit-of-plasma-profiling
* It takes more memory to run. In fact it pretty much takes same memory as you would require for Windows XP.
This could have many culprits. The problem might be running a KDE3 app in KDE4 land, which requires you to load twice the libraries, or, like me, you run Firefox, which is a bit of a hog.
* The Desktop is ugly. I am pretty happy some simple icons on the desktop. I don’t need fancy effects. There is a value in simplicty and I wish KDE devleopers learnt this from Mac OSX.
Sorry you feel that way. But plasma is very easy to theme, so we should see many more themes once KDE4 gains traction. KDE 4.2 will offer you the option of a traditional desktop, with icons on the desktop.
* I have been using Superkaramba for a long time and love it compared to KDE applets. In version 4, these are replaced by widgets. It just seems like a step in wrong direction as it has fewer widgets and they are horrible.
Again, as the platform gains traction, the number of widgets will improve. And if I remember correctly, you can run Superkaramba widgets on the KDE4 desktop (this might have changed/I might be wrong).
* Every time I tried to customize the desktop and L&F, it ended up screwing up everything.
I don’t know which version you tried (4.0 or 4.1), but customization of the desktop improved and is improving; I run trunk and it’s constantly getting better.
* The main KDE menu is almost unusable. I don’t understand how it is more user friendly
It takes two clicks to switch to menu classic: right click the menu button -> “Switch to Classic Menu” (or something like that). Soon there will be many more menus; Lancelot (which is already out), Raptor, and PeachyDock.
* Same applies to Dolphin file manager. I have Dolphin on KDE 3.x as well, but again there isn’t anything mind blowing.
Konqeror is still there! You don’t have to switch.
I can see you have your reservations, and some of them are well founded. I’d recommend you move to a distro with proper KDE support, like OpenSUSE, and stick with 3.5.10 until 4.4 or 4.5 comes out. But if you do move to gnome or XFCE, be sure to check back in with us!
Newman Gnomeuser said,
October 20, 2008 @ 11:12 am
Spot on. I’ve since switched to GNOME and don’t plan on going back. KDE4 is a disaster. The 4.1 release that was supposed to clear up all the user concerns only confirmed them. They need to change the menu to the old style. Get rid of the whole widget thing. Change the feel of everything mouse orientated. Fix about 1000 bugs. Remove the default compositor and use Compiz. After all that, then they’d be halfway back on track.
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October 20, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
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Pat Cahalan said,
October 20, 2008 @ 1:12 pm
KDE and Gnome suffer from the same problem; a lack of reasonable defaults. The only difference between the two is how far their idea of a reasonable default differs from the user’s concept of a reasonable default, and that’s a user-level decision.
I personally think that both the Gnome and KDE desktop environments would be *vastly* improved if the respective communities would put some effort into classifying two or three default configurations, from bare-bones (like, Blackbox-level bare bones), to midrange (a minimal amount of bells and whistles, specifically absolute minimal startup services), and then the full-fledged version - their current “default”. Certainly, you can customize either of them, but the curse of customization is that it takes people time to figure out how to perform those customizations, time to implement those customizations, and they completely miss out on the unknown unknowns -> they can’t customize something that they don’t understand.
sick_oscar said,
October 20, 2008 @ 6:26 pm
About the design/user friendly thing: those are impressions, so subjective for definition.
For istance, I like dark themes, so I changed the white one I had and voilà… the problem is solved. I also agree with Pat Cahalan, but the lack of defaults is a non-problem, beacause maybe is just too early. User friendly is a bad word which must be abolished by the dictionary on a UNIX like system: an OS like GNU/Linux is the perfect battleground for people to show their “I-do-my-job-faster-and-better-than-you” kung-fu, because with two icons and a shell you can do pretty everithing. That means, in my opinion, that user friendly must be the ability of an OS to give you the tools to do your job even faster than you can , and KDE, like every KDE distribution, does it well.
About the performances: I agree with you. Even on my pc it it slower than KDE 3.5, much slower than GNOME and enormously slower than FluxBox (I use them all). But that has always been and maybe will be for a long time, until people will have the freedom to choose between a system that offers you a basic graphical interface or a more beautiful and edgy and complete one. I also agree about the SuperKaramba thing: it was and it still is a good way to handle widgets on the screen, moreover I’ve seen some distros with KDE where a modification of the list of widgets on plasma makes it all screw up.