Comments for Atif Khan's Blog http://www.khanspot.com Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:56:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 Comment on Is this the end of KDE for me? by sick_oscar http://www.khanspot.com/2008/10/19/is-this-the-end-of-kde-for-me/#comment-1924 sick_oscar Mon, 20 Oct 2008 23:26:01 +0000 http://www.khanspot.com/2008/10/19/is-this-the-end-of-kde-for-me/#comment-1924 About the design/user friendly thing: those are impressions, so subjective for definition. For istance, I like dark themes, so I changed the white one I had and voilà... the problem is solved. I also agree with Pat Cahalan, but the lack of defaults is a non-problem, beacause maybe is just too early. User friendly is a bad word which must be abolished by the dictionary on a UNIX like system: an OS like GNU/Linux is the perfect battleground for people to show their "I-do-my-job-faster-and-better-than-you" kung-fu, because with two icons and a shell you can do pretty everithing. That means, in my opinion, that user friendly must be the ability of an OS to give you the tools to do your job even faster than you can , and KDE, like every KDE distribution, does it well. About the performances: I agree with you. Even on my pc it it slower than KDE 3.5, much slower than GNOME and enormously slower than FluxBox (I use them all). But that has always been and maybe will be for a long time, until people will have the freedom to choose between a system that offers you a basic graphical interface or a more beautiful and edgy and complete one. I also agree about the SuperKaramba thing: it was and it still is a good way to handle widgets on the screen, moreover I've seen some distros with KDE where a modification of the list of widgets on plasma makes it all screw up. About the design/user friendly thing: those are impressions, so subjective for definition.
For istance, I like dark themes, so I changed the white one I had and voilà… the problem is solved. I also agree with Pat Cahalan, but the lack of defaults is a non-problem, beacause maybe is just too early. User friendly is a bad word which must be abolished by the dictionary on a UNIX like system: an OS like GNU/Linux is the perfect battleground for people to show their “I-do-my-job-faster-and-better-than-you” kung-fu, because with two icons and a shell you can do pretty everithing. That means, in my opinion, that user friendly must be the ability of an OS to give you the tools to do your job even faster than you can , and KDE, like every KDE distribution, does it well.

About the performances: I agree with you. Even on my pc it it slower than KDE 3.5, much slower than GNOME and enormously slower than FluxBox (I use them all). But that has always been and maybe will be for a long time, until people will have the freedom to choose between a system that offers you a basic graphical interface or a more beautiful and edgy and complete one. I also agree about the SuperKaramba thing: it was and it still is a good way to handle widgets on the screen, moreover I’ve seen some distros with KDE where a modification of the list of widgets on plasma makes it all screw up.

]]> Comment on Is this the end of KDE for me? by Pat Cahalan http://www.khanspot.com/2008/10/19/is-this-the-end-of-kde-for-me/#comment-1922 Pat Cahalan Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:12:04 +0000 http://www.khanspot.com/2008/10/19/is-this-the-end-of-kde-for-me/#comment-1922 KDE and Gnome suffer from the same problem; a lack of reasonable defaults. The only difference between the two is how far their idea of a reasonable default differs from the user's concept of a reasonable default, and that's a user-level decision. I personally think that both the Gnome and KDE desktop environments would be *vastly* improved if the respective communities would put some effort into classifying two or three default configurations, from bare-bones (like, Blackbox-level bare bones), to midrange (a minimal amount of bells and whistles, specifically absolute minimal startup services), and then the full-fledged version - their current "default". Certainly, you can customize either of them, but the curse of customization is that it takes people time to figure out how to perform those customizations, time to implement those customizations, and they completely miss out on the unknown unknowns -> they can't customize something that they don't understand. KDE and Gnome suffer from the same problem; a lack of reasonable defaults. The only difference between the two is how far their idea of a reasonable default differs from the user’s concept of a reasonable default, and that’s a user-level decision.

I personally think that both the Gnome and KDE desktop environments would be *vastly* improved if the respective communities would put some effort into classifying two or three default configurations, from bare-bones (like, Blackbox-level bare bones), to midrange (a minimal amount of bells and whistles, specifically absolute minimal startup services), and then the full-fledged version - their current “default”. Certainly, you can customize either of them, but the curse of customization is that it takes people time to figure out how to perform those customizations, time to implement those customizations, and they completely miss out on the unknown unknowns -> they can’t customize something that they don’t understand.

]]> Comment on Is this the end of KDE for me? by Deliggit.com | The social sites' most interesting urls http://www.khanspot.com/2008/10/19/is-this-the-end-of-kde-for-me/#comment-1921 Deliggit.com | The social sites' most interesting urls Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:17:56 +0000 http://www.khanspot.com/2008/10/19/is-this-the-end-of-kde-for-me/#comment-1921 <strong>Is this the end of KDE for me? | Deliggit.com...</strong> \r\nI have always preferred KDE over GNOME. But, the KDE 4 have given me lot of headache... Is this the end of KDE for me? | Deliggit.com…

\r\nI have always preferred KDE over GNOME. But, the KDE 4 have given me lot of headache…

]]> Comment on Is this the end of KDE for me? by Newman Gnomeuser http://www.khanspot.com/2008/10/19/is-this-the-end-of-kde-for-me/#comment-1920 Newman Gnomeuser Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:12:34 +0000 http://www.khanspot.com/2008/10/19/is-this-the-end-of-kde-for-me/#comment-1920 Spot on. I've since switched to GNOME and don't plan on going back. KDE4 is a disaster. The 4.1 release that was supposed to clear up all the user concerns only confirmed them. They need to change the menu to the old style. Get rid of the whole widget thing. Change the feel of everything mouse orientated. Fix about 1000 bugs. Remove the default compositor and use Compiz. After all that, then they'd be halfway back on track. Spot on. I’ve since switched to GNOME and don’t plan on going back. KDE4 is a disaster. The 4.1 release that was supposed to clear up all the user concerns only confirmed them. They need to change the menu to the old style. Get rid of the whole widget thing. Change the feel of everything mouse orientated. Fix about 1000 bugs. Remove the default compositor and use Compiz. After all that, then they’d be halfway back on track.

]]> Comment on Is this the end of KDE for me? by Anon http://www.khanspot.com/2008/10/19/is-this-the-end-of-kde-for-me/#comment-1918 Anon Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:05:04 +0000 http://www.khanspot.com/2008/10/19/is-this-the-end-of-kde-for-me/#comment-1918 I'm sorry you've had problems. I'm glad, however, that you're very calm and reasonable about this. The community appreciates constructive feed back; let's see if what we can do about your problems. * It’s horribly slow compared to 3.x versions. As the previous poster said, it might be the nvidia thing (or, if you are using Kubuntu; consider moving to a distro that properly supports KDE, like OpenSUSE), but no doubt that this first pass is a little slower. However, the underlying frameworks are getting leaner and more efficient, and as developers learn to properly harness those frameworks, things will speed up. Plus, there has been lots of work making the whole environment quicker. Take this, for example: http://blog.bepointbe.be/index.php/2008/10/19/30-a-bit-of-plasma-profiling * It takes more memory to run. In fact it pretty much takes same memory as you would require for Windows XP. This could have many culprits. The problem might be running a KDE3 app in KDE4 land, which requires you to load twice the libraries, or, like me, you run Firefox, which is a bit of a hog. * The Desktop is ugly. I am pretty happy some simple icons on the desktop. I don’t need fancy effects. There is a value in simplicty and I wish KDE devleopers learnt this from Mac OSX. Sorry you feel that way. But plasma is very easy to theme, so we should see many more themes once KDE4 gains traction. KDE 4.2 will offer you the option of a traditional desktop, with icons on the desktop. * I have been using Superkaramba for a long time and love it compared to KDE applets. In version 4, these are replaced by widgets. It just seems like a step in wrong direction as it has fewer widgets and they are horrible. Again, as the platform gains traction, the number of widgets will improve. And if I remember correctly, you can run Superkaramba widgets on the KDE4 desktop (this might have changed/I might be wrong). * Every time I tried to customize the desktop and L&F, it ended up screwing up everything. I don't know which version you tried (4.0 or 4.1), but customization of the desktop improved and is improving; I run trunk and it's constantly getting better. * The main KDE menu is almost unusable. I don’t understand how it is more user friendly It takes two clicks to switch to menu classic: right click the menu button -> "Switch to Classic Menu" (or something like that). Soon there will be many more menus; Lancelot (which is already out), Raptor, and PeachyDock. * Same applies to Dolphin file manager. I have Dolphin on KDE 3.x as well, but again there isn’t anything mind blowing. Konqeror is still there! You don't have to switch. I can see you have your reservations, and some of them are well founded. I'd recommend you move to a distro with proper KDE support, like OpenSUSE, and stick with 3.5.10 until 4.4 or 4.5 comes out. But if you do move to gnome or XFCE, be sure to check back in with us! I’m sorry you’ve had problems. I’m glad, however, that you’re very calm and reasonable about this. The community appreciates constructive feed back; let’s see if what we can do about your problems.

* It’s horribly slow compared to 3.x versions.
As the previous poster said, it might be the nvidia thing (or, if you are using Kubuntu; consider moving to a distro that properly supports KDE, like OpenSUSE), but no doubt that this first pass is a little slower. However, the underlying frameworks are getting leaner and more efficient, and as developers learn to properly harness those frameworks, things will speed up. Plus, there has been lots of work making the whole environment quicker. Take this, for example:
http://blog.bepointbe.be/index.php/2008/10/19/30-a-bit-of-plasma-profiling

* It takes more memory to run. In fact it pretty much takes same memory as you would require for Windows XP.
This could have many culprits. The problem might be running a KDE3 app in KDE4 land, which requires you to load twice the libraries, or, like me, you run Firefox, which is a bit of a hog.

* The Desktop is ugly. I am pretty happy some simple icons on the desktop. I don’t need fancy effects. There is a value in simplicty and I wish KDE devleopers learnt this from Mac OSX.
Sorry you feel that way. But plasma is very easy to theme, so we should see many more themes once KDE4 gains traction. KDE 4.2 will offer you the option of a traditional desktop, with icons on the desktop.

* I have been using Superkaramba for a long time and love it compared to KDE applets. In version 4, these are replaced by widgets. It just seems like a step in wrong direction as it has fewer widgets and they are horrible.
Again, as the platform gains traction, the number of widgets will improve. And if I remember correctly, you can run Superkaramba widgets on the KDE4 desktop (this might have changed/I might be wrong).

* Every time I tried to customize the desktop and L&F, it ended up screwing up everything.
I don’t know which version you tried (4.0 or 4.1), but customization of the desktop improved and is improving; I run trunk and it’s constantly getting better.

* The main KDE menu is almost unusable. I don’t understand how it is more user friendly
It takes two clicks to switch to menu classic: right click the menu button -> “Switch to Classic Menu” (or something like that). Soon there will be many more menus; Lancelot (which is already out), Raptor, and PeachyDock.

* Same applies to Dolphin file manager. I have Dolphin on KDE 3.x as well, but again there isn’t anything mind blowing.
Konqeror is still there! You don’t have to switch.

I can see you have your reservations, and some of them are well founded. I’d recommend you move to a distro with proper KDE support, like OpenSUSE, and stick with 3.5.10 until 4.4 or 4.5 comes out. But if you do move to gnome or XFCE, be sure to check back in with us!

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